There seems to be a lot of confusion about the locusts in Joel 1 and 2. How is it that Jehovah will give compensation to his people for the years the locusts ate the food? How is it that the northern will be driven away?

The locusts (God's faithful restored people) were sent forth to preach among the unfaithful who had no spiritual food. The locusts ate and possessed all the spiritual food. Do you want to get some of that food for yourself? Then you must repent and turn around. Then you will be compensated for the years that you had no spiritual food.

The northener will be driven away from you. What does that mean? It means that you will not meet the same destruction as unfaithful Jerusalem will meet. The northener (Roman armies) will not destroy you because you have repented and turned around and been compensated with spritual truths that allow you to avoid the destruction that Jerusalem will recieve.

It is the same today. Everyone who repents and leave Christendom (God's apostacized people) is compensated for the years they had no spritual food. Now they have food in abundance. The Northerner(UN or nations) will not destroy you as you will not be a part of Christendom. You have spiritual truths that help you to be obedient and avoid destruction. From you he will be driven away.

Peter applied the Joel prophecy to the first century when God's people began to preach. It is applies the same way today.

Can anyone add to this?

I think it is an important point to highlight that Peter applied the beginning of it's fulfillment to his day...to the ingathering of the anointed or God's army ..or locusts...which are identified in Rev 9 as Gods army and also at Joel 1:6....(5-1-98 wt)...

alot of apostates confuse things by trying to ignore the application Peter made and some similar applications that Paul made as being a then and now scenario..as if the anointed remnant today are not and haven't been part of that "one body" of God's army....and therefore inseperable from the applications that Peter and Paul made...in this and other prophetic applications....

that 5-1 98 wt article is worth reading for sure...here is an excerpt... 7 A disreputable crowd, Judah’s religious leaders are singled out when the command is uttered: “Wake up, you drunkards, and weep; and howl, all you wine drinkers, on account of sweet wine, for it has been cut off from your mouths.” (Joel 1:5) Yes, the spiritual drunkards of Judah were told to “wake up,” to sober up. But do not think that this is merely ancient history. Right now, before the great day of Jehovah, Christendom’s clergy are figuratively so full of sweet wine that they are barely conscious of this summons from the Most High. How surprised they will be when they are aroused from their spiritual drunken stupor by the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah!

8 Look at that great locust army! “There is a nation that has come up into my land, mighty and without number. Its teeth are the teeth of a lion, and it has the jawbones of a lion. It has set my vine as an object of astonishment, and my fig tree as a stump. It has positively stripped it bare and thrown it away. The twigs of it have become white. Wail, as a virgin girded with sackcloth does over the owner of her youth.”—Joel 1:6-8.

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notice the description of the highlights from Joel and how they are paralleled in Jeremiah..

Locust invasion to strip the land; the day of Jehovah is near (1:1–2:11)

The coming plague will be talked about for generations

The vegetation of the land will be stripped so that grain and drink offerings will cease at Jehovah’s house

Priests are told to mourn and cry to Jehovah for help

Jehovah’s day is marked by a destructive invasion of “his military force”

Israel invited to return to Jehovah; His spirit to be poured out (2:12-32)

The inhabitants of Zion are invited to “come back” to Jehovah; he will restore their prosperity and protect them from “the northerner”

Jehovah will pour out his spirit on his people, and he will give portents in the heavens and on earth before his “great and fear-inspiring day”

Those calling on Jehovah’s name will escape during his great day

The nations will be judged in “the low plain of Jehoshaphat” (3:1-21)

The nations will be judged for mistreating God’s people

They are challenged to prepare themselves for war against Jehovah and to come down to the low plain of Jehoshaphat; there they will be crushed like grapes in a winepress

At that time Jehovah will be a refuge for his people

Egypt and Edom will become a wilderness, whereas Judah will be inhabited and produce abundantly; Jehovah will reside in Zion


scripture from Jeremiah:

Jeremiah 1:14 At this Jehovah said to me: “Out of the north the calamity will be loosened against all the inhabitants of the land. 15 For ‘here I am calling for all the families of the kingdoms of the north,’ is the utterance of Jehovah; ‘and they will certainly come and place each one his throne at the entrance of the gates of Jerusalem, and against all her walls round about and against all the cities of Judah. 16 And I will speak with them my judgments over all their badness, in that they have left me and they keep making sacrificial smoke to other gods and bowing down to the works of their own hands.’

17 “And as for you, you should gird up your hips, and you must rise up and speak to them everything that I myself command you. Do not be struck with any terror because of them, in order that I may not strike you with terror before them. 18 But as for me, here I have made you today a fortified city and an iron pillar and copper walls against all the land, toward the kings of Judah, toward her princes, toward her priests and toward the people of the land. 19 And they will be certain to fight against you, but they will not prevail against you, for ‘I am with you,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘to deliver you.’”

the old "borean room crowd" was hot to twist this subject to fit their visions of grandeur....but it never quite would fit ...
because the bottom line is that no matter how you slice it you can't square it with separating from God's people. (Because his people are the ones who are recieving protection) and unless you are prepared to declare JW's NOT nor ever were God's people you run into a prophetic brick wall. Many of them if not all of them eventually would come to saying just that. But ...as 3W points out then if Joel is to then be applied that way then you'd have to say that Peter and the first century Christians were not part of the fulfillment either...etc...etc...bottom line is that like all the other FJV applications ..they just don't fit...

it kind of reminds me of when we were kids, and would try to do big adult size jigsaw puzzles....there'd always be a kid that would take and force the pieces together when they obviously didn't go together...and you couldn't tell em either...they'd just act like ...Yea they do..they fit...see ..(as they smashed the pieces together with their thumbs...)

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thanks for the posts, gonna read them tomorrow.

this is from the Revelation book ...ch 22

A First-Century Plague

3 There was a fulfillment of Joel chapter 2 in the first century. It was then, at Pentecost 33 C.E., that holy spirit was poured out, anointing the first Christians and empowering them to speak “the magnificent things of God” in many tongues. As a result, a large crowd assembled. The apostle Peter addressed those astonished onlookers, quoting Joel 2:28, 29 and explaining that they were witnessing its fulfillment. (Acts 2:1-21) But there is no record of a literal insect plague at that time, causing discomfort to some and leading others to repentance.

4 Was there a figurative plague during those days? Yes, indeed! It came as a result of the relentless preaching of the newly anointed Christians. Through them, Jehovah invited those Jews who would listen to repent and enjoy blessings from him. (Acts 2:38-40; 3:19) The individuals who responded received his favor to a remarkable degree. But to the ones who refused the invitation, the first-century Christians became like a devastating swarm of locusts. Starting in Jerusalem, they spread through all Judea and Samaria. Soon they were everywhere, tormenting the unbelieving Jews by publicly proclaiming Jesus’ resurrection, with all that this implied. (Acts 1:8; 4:18-20; 5:17-21, 28, 29, 40-42; 17:5, 6; 21:27-30) That plaguing continued until the “fear-inspiring day,” in 70 C.E., when Jehovah brought the Roman armies against Jerusalem to destroy it. Only those Christians who in faith called on the name of Jehovah were saved.—Joel 2:32; Acts 2:20, 21; Proverbs 18:10.

another good point from the same WT article...

13 According to Joel 1:14, their only hope lies in repenting and crying “to Jehovah for aid.” Can we expect Christendom’s entire clergy class to turn to Jehovah? Of course not! Individuals among them might respond to Jehovah’s warning. But the spiritually famished state of these religious leaders and their parishioners as a class will continue. The prophet Amos foretold: “‘Look! There are days coming,’ is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘and I will send a famine into the land, a famine, not for bread, and a thirst, not for water, but for hearing the words of Jehovah.” (Amos 8:11) On the other hand, how grateful we are for the rich spiritual feast that God lovingly provides through “the faithful and discreet slave”!—Matthew 24:45-47.

and another good parallel point from ch 22 of the Rev. book..
I like the way it's put here...

2 The Bible book of Joel, written during the ninth century B.C.E., describes a plague of insects, including locusts, that is similar to the one that John sees. (Joel 2:1-11, 25) It was to cause much discomfort for apostate Israel but would also result in individual Jews’ repenting and returning to Jehovah’s favor. (Joel 2:6, 12-14) When that time arrived, Jehovah would pour out his spirit upon “every sort of flesh,” while fearful signs and alarming portents would precede “the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah.”—Joel 2:11, 28-32.

I can't remember all the details of what the Borean room crowd was making out of this prophecy except that some were claiming that locusts were sent by Satan...to persecute God's people during the time of the end...some said they were "fake" anointed trying to persecute the real anointed...whatever ..there were various and sundry ideas...none of them worked...they were all absurd...

it seems strightforward enough to me, given all the various parallels, (in Jeremiah, Amos, and Isaiah etc) that the "spiritual condition" of the land (that is suppose to be faithful to Jehovah but has apostasized) Christendom is what we're talking about...by now the void and lack of ANYTHING beneficial or spiritually valuable has been long gone and IS definitely ONLY found amongst 1 group of people...his army...which should be an alarm bell for the world that Jehovah's day is near...but obviously they are collectively too drunk to notice...

and the "northerner" did not touch Jehovah's faithful in 70 ...as they won't in the climactic day to come...(at least not as a group..not to suggest there won't be various individual trials and tests for faithful ahead..)

by the way ..if any of my take needs adjusting, I'm certainly open to considering (non-apostate ideas that is.. LOL)...I am no scholar...and will never pretend to be again (Borean room experiencee cured me ..what a bunch of non-sense)....

definition of "Borean Room".....group of internet chat room elite gathered from e-watchman to discuss and mine the depths of prophecy in order to come to a "more accurate" understanding of truth...and they couldn't reason their way out of a wet paper prophetic bag...

we ..(Borean room) ..were all mental pygmies...struggling to be the "biggest pygmie"....

I'll bet I mispelled "pigmie" even

Here is what they are stuck on. Joel 2 tells about the locusts attacking and that people will repent and Jehovah will give plenty of food to eat and will give compensation for the years of the locust attack. Then verse 28 says, "after that" holy spirit will be poured out which was fulfilled at Pentecost 33CE.

But if the locusts did not come forth until after Pentecost then How is it that the locusts attack before Pentecost causing people to repent and receive compensation for the years that the locusts ate the food?

The Hebrew word used is akhar.

This is from The NAS Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon

Strong's Number: 310 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
rxa from (0309)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
'achar TWOT - 68b, 68c
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
akh-ar' Adverb PrepositionConjunction

Definition
after the following part, behind (of place), hinder, afterwards (of time)
as an adverb
behind (of place)
afterwards (of time)
as a preposition
behind, after (of place)
after (of time)
besides
as a conjunction
after that
as a substantive
hinder part
with other prepositions
from behind
from following after


NAS Word Usage - Total: 633
according 1, after 363, after* 6, afterward 30, afterward* 18, afterwards 3, afterwards* 5, again 4, away 1, back 2, behind 49, behind* 9, besides 1, butt end 1, care 1, follow 11, follow* 16, followed 16, followed* 24, following 35, following and followed 1, following* 5, follows* 3, forsaking* 1, later 1, long* 1, pursuing 4, rear 3, since 3, since* 4, subsequent 2, succeeded 1, survived* 2, then 1, thereafter* 1, west 2, west side 1, when* 1

so once again the context would determine the usage? or interpretation?

that "after that' ...the "that" would depend upon the context of the content of what came next in the description...."that" refering back to the beginning of the prophecy again?? not necessarilly what preceded immediately in the text..?

or are we talking about a simple misunderstanding in the usage and meaning of the word...

as in the meaning "besides" used 9 times...?

here's a clue maybe...again from ch 22 of the Rev book

2 The Bible book of Joel, written during the ninth century B.C.E., describes a plague of insects, including locusts, that is similar to the one that John sees. (Joel 2:1-11, 25) It was to cause much discomfort for apostate Israel but would also result in individual Jews’ repenting and returning to Jehovah’s favor. (Joel 2:6, 12-14) When that time arrived, Jehovah would pour out his spirit upon “every sort of flesh,” while fearful signs and alarming portents would precede “the coming of the great and fear-inspiring day of Jehovah.”—Joel 2:11, 28-32.

Well this we know for sure, Peter applied it to 33CE. There was no locust attack literally before that. There was no locust attack from Rome or any other army just before that. So even if a person wanted to say that the locust attack came before 33CE it could only be a spiritual devastation of God's people in that they had become apostate and in need of repentance. If a person insisted on applying it in that way then in modern times it would have to apply to the apostasy thru the Centuries which formed Christendom with its false and apostate doctrines and traditions before the restoration of true worship not after the restoration of true worship.

Either way, EW's interpretation flops and just does not fit.

10-1-80 WT

4 “This is what was said through the prophet Joel, “And in the last days,” God says, “I shall pour out some of my spirit upon every sort of flesh, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy and your young men will see visions and your old men will dream dreams; and even upon my men slaves and upon my women slaves I will pour out some of my spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. And I will give portents in heaven above and signs on earth below, blood and fire and smoke mist; the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood before the great and illustrious day of Jehovah arrives. And everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.”’”—Acts 2:16-21.

5 When had God said such a thing? Hundreds of years previously in Joel 2:28-32. In Hebrew the prophecy opens up, saying: “And after that it must occur that I shall pour out my spirit on every sort of flesh,” and so on. Under inspiration of God’s spirit the apostle Peter located where “after that” applied on the stream of time by saying “in the last days.”

12-1-61 WT

11 We have no Biblical record that such a plague of voracious insects afflicted the land of Israel for years and invaded Zion or Jerusalem. The Bible does indicate, however, how Joel’s prophecy of the plague of locusts, cockroaches and caterpillars was to be fulfilled. Hundreds of years the Jews waited for Joel’s prophecy to be fulfilled. Then in the spring of the year 33, on the day of Shabúoth or Pentecost, the Jewish Christian Peter rose up in Jerusalem under new inspiration of God’s spirit and made an application of the prophecy. Peter quoted from Joel’s prophecy, from the same second chapter in which the insect plague is foretold. Peter quoted Joel 2:28-32, which tells of Jehovah’s pouring out his holy spirit on all sorts of flesh “after that,” so that all those who received the spirit, young and old, male and female, slave and free, prophesied in Jehovah’s name. On that day of Pentecost when God’s spirit was poured out upon the 120 faithful disciples of Jesus Christ gathered in Jerusalem and they spoke miraculously in foreign languages, Peter declared that Joel’s prophecy was fulfilled.—Acts 2:1-21, 33.

12 Because those 120 Christian disciples, who were anointed with God’s spirit, spoke in foreign tongues “about the magnificent things of God,” about 3,000 Jews and proselytes got baptized in water as converts to Christianity. Later the number of converts right there in Jerusalem or Zion rose to about 5,000. (Acts 2:11, 41, 47; 4:4) But what about that part of the prophecy regarding the locust plague?

13 During the four years that John the Baptist and Jesus Christ preached, no literal locust plague had laid the land barren like a wilderness. True, John the Baptist had eaten insect locusts for food in the wilderness of Judea, but these were solitary locusts, not those in swarms big enough to become a plague. (Matt. 3:1-4) But after Jesus Christ died and was resurrected and was called back to heaven by his heavenly Father and then received a measure of the holy spirit and poured it out upon his disciples in Jerusalem at Pentecost, what happened? The Jewish religious leaders and their followers became plagued. No, not with literal locusts, but with symbolic Christian locusts. The disciples of Jesus Christ, who had been anointed with holy spirit, carried on a campaign of prophesying or preaching throughout Jerusalem about God’s kingdom and about the destruction of that “crooked generation” of anti-Christian Jews.

very true...and the "compensation" obviously is related to the restoration...if that application were yet future then his "army" could not have been being gathered so would exclude Peter and first century anointed right up to present remnant...which of course is absurd

3W said:"...If a person insisted on applying it in that way then in modern times it would have to apply to the apostasy thru the Centuries which formed Christendom with its false and apostate doctrines and traditions before the restoration of true worship not after the restoration of true worship.

that was worth repeating and focusing on....

So for future judgement viewers here is a simple question that they cannot answer without blowing their interpretation to smithereens:

If holy spirit was poured out and Joel 2:28 was fulfilled at Pentecost, 33CE as stated by Peter and this occured 'after that' locust attack, then what was the locust attack that took place before 33CE?

Psalms 110:1 The utterance of Jehovah to my Lord is:
“Sit at my right hand
Until I place your enemies as a stool for your feet.”

2 The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying
“Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”

3 Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day of your military force.
In the splendors of holiness, from the womb of the dawn,
You have your company of young men just like dewdrops.

Joel 2:11 And Jehovah himself will certainly give forth his voice before his military force, for his camp is very numerous. For he who is carrying out his word is mighty; for the day of Jehovah is great and very fear-inspiring, and who can hold up under it?”

3W ...this topic is a very interesting one...it is very encouraging and faith strengthening the more you read and think about it...

thanks for bringing it up and for the clear reasoning on it. I hope (really hope) that it is not lost on or glossed over by any of the "Future judgment viewers" ..because I think this topic more than almost any other really exposes that reasoning on more than one level...

Interesting verses about locusts are found in Nahum 3 and Jeremiah 51. Jeremiah 51 is about the fall of Babylon and the invaders being like locusts. Nahum is about those who against Jehovah being like locusts in cold weather and not doing anything worthwhile. Once it gets warm enough they just fly away.

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Notice how these verses in Jeremiah 51are similar to verses in Revelation about Babylon the Great.



6 “FLEE out of the midst of Babylon, and provide escape each one for his own soul. Do not be rendered inanimate through her error. For it is the time of vengeance belonging to Jehovah. There is treatment that he is paying back to her. 7 Babylon has been a golden cup in the hand of Jehovah, she making all the earth drunk. From her wine the nations have drunk. That is why the nations keep acting crazed. 8 Suddenly Babylon has fallen, so that she is broken. Howl over her, YOU people. Take balsam for her pain. Perhaps she may be healed.”

9 “We would have healed Babylon, but she has not been healed. Leave her, YOU people, and let us go each one to his own land. For clear to the heavens her judgment has reached, and it has been lifted up to the cloudy skies.

11 Jehovah has aroused the spirit of the kings of the Medes, because it is against Babylon that his idea is, in order to bring her to ruin. For it is the vengeance of Jehovah, the vengeance for his temple.

13 “O woman residing on abounding waters, abundant in treasures, your end has come, the measure of your profit making. 14 Jehovah of armies has sworn by his own soul, ‘I will fill you with men, like the locusts, and they will certainly sing forth over you a shout.’

25 “Here I am against you, O ruinous mountain,” is the utterance of Jehovah, “you ruiner of the whole earth; and I will stretch out my hand against you and roll you away from the crags and make you a burnt-out mountain.”

41 How Babylon has become a mere object of astonishment among the nations! 42 The sea has come up even over Babylon. By the multitude of its waves she has been covered. 43 Her cities have become an object of astonishment, a waterless land and a desert plain. As a land, in them no man will dwell, and through them no son of mankind will pass. 44 And I will turn my attention upon Bel in Babylon, and I will bring forth out of his mouth what he has swallowed. And to him nations will stream no more. Also, the wall itself of Babylon must fall.

45 “Get out of the midst of her, O my people, and provide each one his soul with escape from the burning anger of Jehovah.

63 And it must occur that when you will have completed reading this book, you will tie to it a stone, and you must pitch it into the midst of the Eu·phra´tes. 64 And you must say, ‘This is how Babylon will sink down and never rise up because of the calamity that I am bringing in upon her; and they will certainly tire themselves out.’”

these too...struck me ...and the tie into Galations 4 was interesting...Joel- Isaiah- Galations

Joel 2:2 It is a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick gloom, like light of dawn spread out upon the mountains.“There is a people numerous and mighty; one like it has not been made to exist from the indefinite past, and after it there will be none again to the years of generation after generation. 3 Ahead of it a fire has devoured, and behind it a flame consumes. Like the garden of E´den the land is ahead of it;

Isaaih 51:3 For Jehovah will certainly comfort Zion. He will for certain comfort all her devastated places, and he will make her wilderness like E´den and her desert plain like the garden of Jehovah. Exultation and rejoicing themselves will be found in her, thanksgiving and the voice of melody.

Isaiah 54:1 “Cry out joyfully, you barren woman that did not give birth! Become cheerful with a joyful outcry and cry shrilly, you that had no childbirth pains, for the sons of the desolated one are more numerous than the sons of the woman with a husbandly owner,” Jehovah has said

Galations 4:24 These things stand as a symbolic drama; for these [women] mean two covenants, the one from Mount Si´nai, which brings forth children for slavery, and which is Ha´gar. 25 Now this Ha´gar means Si´nai, a mountain in Arabia, and she corresponds with the Jerusalem today, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
27 For it is written: “Be glad, you barren woman who does not give birth; break out and cry aloud, you woman who does not have childbirth pains; for the children of the desolate woman are more numerous than [those] of her who has the husband.”

a star fell from heaven and that the key of the abyss was given him. ... it should be obvious that the star represents Jesus. Elsewhere, Jesus said that he had been given the keys of death and hades. He further told his disciples that he had the power to open doors that no one else can shut.

Since those symbolic locust-like creatures that are released from the abyss evidently symbolize Christ's then-sealed brothers, having been given crowns of gold, undoubtedly their Lord, Christ Jesus, is the one who opens the pit and releases them in order that they may deliver the final tormenting proclamation of doom upon Satan's world.

Interestingly, in this connection, the 33rd chapter of Isaiah is Jehovah's judicial decision against the treacherous despoilers of God's people and it depicts Jehovah turning the tables, so that the despoilers are themselves despoiled. The 4th verse reads: "And the spoil of you people will actually be gathered like the cockroaches when gathering in, like the onrush of locust swarms that is rushing against one."

So, that indicates that God's enemies as well as his own people can be likened to locusts when they despoil their enemies.

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